The Divorced Dadvocate: Divorce Support For Dads

258 - REPLAY: Creating Effective Parenting Plans During Divorce

• Jude Sandvall • Season 5 • Episode 258

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Divorced dads: Are you navigating the complex world of parenting plans? From holiday schedules to transportation logistics, our latest episode covers the essential components you need to address. Don't leave your custody arrangement to chance.

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Speaker 1:

Hello and welcome to the Divorced Dadvocate Divorce Support for Dads, where we help dads create a healthy and less traumatic divorce. My name is Jude Sandoval and I'm your host. I created this podcast in the Divorced Advocate community as a result of my own high conflict divorce and because you, as a dad, deserve all the resources necessary to thrive through this challenging time. I encourage you to check out our website at thedivorcedadvocatecom, where there are resources that correspond to this episode, as well as free access to our membership community, where you will find live meetings, free workshops and courses, private discussion groups and more. And now on to this week's episode. Hello and welcome to the show. I sincerely appreciate you being here today, and we've got a great topic. It is one that I realized during our group meeting this morning that I had not recorded a podcast on it, and not exactly sure why I missed this, but we're going to be talking about common questions about parenting plans. We spent about half of our meeting this morning with the 12 guys on the call talking about the different types of parenting plans and how those impact each and every different kind of circumstance or each of the individual guys', circumstances, and so I wanted to share a little bit more today about some of those questions that came up in our group meeting and that I hear on a regular basis. Before we get into it, though, I do want to welcome some dads to the community T Ilya, andy, bill, matt, tyler, dan, tony, adam and Mark. Welcome to the Divorced Advocate community, tony, adam and Mark. Welcome to the Divorced Advocate community. If you are not part of the community, go to thedivorcedadvocatecom, click on that membership and you can get involved in the group meetings that we have, which are fantastic. Again, you hear me talking about surrounding yourself with others, not self-isolating, during this, and it's a good opportunity for you and the other dads that are going through or have been through divorce to talk about what's going on, share strategies, ideas and just be with others that are going through some of the same challenging times. So check that out at thedivorcedadvocatecom under the membership tab, and also the divorce quiz is still up there, so check that out too. It gives you a great opportunity to see where you are at in comparison to others who have gone through divorce and give you some immediate results that you can look at and kind of gauge how you're doing.

Speaker 1:

All right, let's talk about some common questions about parenting plans. Now, all right, let's talk about some common questions about parenting plans. Now, one of the first questions I get is oh, hey, do you have a template? Or hey, do you have a what's pretty standard for a parenting plan? And the answer to that is really there is no single standard parenting plan that applies to every situation, because everybody's circumstances are different, every family is different, the environment is different, people's jobs are different, people's interests are different and the kids' extracurricular activities are different. There is no just one standard or typical parenting plan that applies to all families. Now, this is something to be cognizant of when you're talking to your attorney or hearing from your spouse's attorney, also about well, this is just the plan or this is just how these plans work. These plans can be, they can be changed and they can be made to suit and custom, tailored to exactly what your circumstances are. Now, obviously, you both have to agree to that if you're going to come into agreement and file this with the court outside of going to trial. But these can be customized and you can ask for different things and you can ask for different kinds of changes and ways in which you want to do this, and I've seen all kinds of different things and all kinds of unique and creative ways in which people have crafted these in order to find a way in which it works for their specific circumstances and for their families.

Speaker 1:

I guess the number one thing I'd say is and I'm going to talk about this maybe a little bit later is just think about how it's going to impact you. The parenting plans are going to impact the kiddos. When you're doing that within the context of how effective and how reasonable is it that you'll be able to execute it and be able to have it be effective and good for all parties. So there is a caveat to that. You want to put the best interests of the kiddos first, but if it makes absolutely no sense and it's going to be a complete burden, absolutely impossible, to perform any of the components of the parenting plan, then it's obviously something that maybe you need to fight for a change or a creative solution to. So let's talk about some more of that in a little bit of detail.

Speaker 1:

But first I want to clarify and this came up in our group meeting this morning kind of the mindset of the court and the two-pronged approach in which divorce is executed. One is the parenting plan and they call it custody, call it visitation In different places you'll hear it called different things but that is basically around the parenting time who has parenting time, some of the additional components that go into the parenting time. We're going to talk about some of those coming up here, and then the other second part of that, or the alternative part of that, is everything else that is not the parenting plan, and so that would include things like finances or splitting of marital property and assets and stuff like that. So the court's really going to be looking at this in two different lights One, the parenting plan and two, everything else around that. Most of us say finances or financially related stuff. So we're talking about the one part of this, which is the parenting plan, and visitation or custody, allocation of parental responsibilities, stuff like that. So that is what I'm talking about with the parenting plan here.

Speaker 1:

So, just so you understand, almost at least in the United States here, almost every single state is going to be looking for some sort of plan during a divorce. So in order to issue a decree of divorce, they're going to be looking for some sort. Now obviously only if you're married and you have kids, which is all of you who are probably listening right, they're going to be looking for some sort of parenting plan to be filed with them so that they can approve that. And you know this is just going to provide some stability and well-being and some comfort level for the state when issuing that, that there is a plan for what happens with the kids. So that's why you're going to be required to see that.

Speaker 1:

For those of you that are required to issue that to the court and maybe answer some questions around that to the court, for the most part, if you are doing this yourself and you're not working through an attorney, or even if you're working through an attorney that's just helping you to do this, maybe in a collaborative divorce circumstance, or maybe you're working with a mediator and you're submitting your plan that the court will pretty much agree to any plan that the two of you have come to agreement with, unless they see that this is something that is going to be a circumstance that is detrimental to the children. And when I say detrimental, the courts are going to be looking for like severe, something severe that could be detrimental to the kids. So you can be creative in how you put this together and most of the time, the courts are going to be agreeable to that and approve the parenting plan If you are both coming to the court saying yes, we both agree with this, even though it's unique or creative or something different from what they see as quote, unquote the normal types of parenting plans that they may see on a regular basis or are more standard, so just know that. So let's talk about some of the elements that go into what I'd say a standard, or some of the basics that will go into a parenting plan. Some of these common components are the residential schedule for the children this is where they're going to live and which parent they're going to live with and which parent they're going to live with and the second part of that, which would be the schedule for where they will be living and which parent they will be with. So that's going to be really the basic one. I know the first thing that you think of, or that most people think of, when they think of the parenting plan or the allocation of parental responsibilities or visitation or custody, whatever you call it in your area Is that that residential schedule for the kids, where they're going to live and what is the parenting time for each of those, each of those parents.

Speaker 1:

Now the parenting time I think we've talked you talked. We have talked in a previous episode, so check that out, if you haven't the episode about what is the right parenting time plan for you and that can vary again depending upon your circumstances. There's so many variables that go into it your work schedule, your spouse's work schedule, how many kids you have. If they're older, what are their extracurricular activities and how do you get them to those activities. There's just a myriad of different things that go into it. So that's why it's also really important to talk through that with somebody, because some of these schedules we were talking about a 2-2-3 schedule this morning, which is that it's like two for one two days for one parent, two days for the other parent, three days for the other parent and then it goes back to two and like that is really confusing and can be very challenging.

Speaker 1:

But there are some benefits to it, definitely for the kids where they're not uh with one or the other parent for too many days, and it works particularly well for younger kids that might not do as well being away from a parent, say for five days or for a week, if you're doing a week on or a week off, so make sure to run that by somebody that can be a family therapist or a kid's therapist. It could be a divorce coach, the kids therapist. It could be a divorce coach, which I would highly recommend because they see all the different variations of this. It could be their pediatrician might have some feedback around that. So just get some advice, because your attorney will have kind of a stock idea, but they're not ones making these decisions. They're just coming up with ways in which you can come to resolution, but they're not going to really focus in on and talk about all the myriad of different things that are going on with your life.

Speaker 1:

They will know generally hopefully, if your attorney is good, know, have a really good working understanding of a lot of the dynamics in your household and with your families, but they don't know everything that's going on and they definitely are not taking the intimate time to know and learn and understand. And this isn't bashing attorneys, it's just that they have a finite amount of time that they have to work on it and you're paying them for that finite amount of time and so if you're spending time talking with them and working through all of this, you're spending money on what they're doing or you're spending money on them and what they do best is the legal system and helping you through the process. So that's why I say find some other outside alternative resource in addition to talking to your attorney about this, to work out what is the best residential schedule, parenting time schedule for you and your kiddos. One of the next components that is pretty common is a visitation schedule for the holidays and vacations, or even birthdays and anything else that might be important for you to be with your kids or your spouse to be with the kids. Make sure that you look at in specific detail all of these, and this is one of those ones where, if a holiday is important to one person, not to the other, it's a good way in which you can negotiate which holidays or which things you would like to have the kids for, and which ones your soon-to-be ex will have them as well. One example for me was I like to celebrate and do the celebration of Christmas on Christmas Eve, on the 24th, so we celebrate the evening before and then Christmas Day is just really just about relaxing, et cetera, and my ex celebrates Christmas on Christmas Day, and so it worked out well. So I have most Christmas Eves or I try to, and she has time during Christmas Day, and so that's just an example. And again, you can create these creatively to how it is best for you and your family and your kiddos creatively, to how it is best for you and your family and your kiddos.

Speaker 1:

And one of the things I'm going to say now and I'm going to talk about this well, I'll just say it now is make sure to get into specific detail about all of this stuff. Actually, let me just I'm going to stop here with some of these common elements and say the more detail that you put into these parenting plans, the less conflict that you're going to have or the other parent's going to have, if you put it in specific detail. When I say specific detail, that means drop-off times, pick-up times, what the holiday is and what that parenting time looks like 5 o'clock on whatever day to 8 am on whatever day is deemed as the holiday, and that is the time on every other year or odd number of years or even number of years or whatever. Lot easier to work and loosen from and make arrangements from something that's very specific, to agreeing to something different, as opposed to arguing over what the intent of a loosely written agreement is. So be very specific. That might seem like it's a lot of work, it might seem like it's maybe even punitive, but it's not, trust me. You are just going to be happier, but you're just going to avoid lots and lots of conflict, misunderstandings, arguments and maybe even having to go back to court to figure some stuff out which you don't want to do again. Because getting through this once, if you can get through it and make this as airtight as possible, then you're going to be much happier. So, make sure, put it in specific, specific, detail, and you can always reach out to me. One of the things we did with our group meeting this morning is we shared some of us shared that have already gone through it our respective parenting plans with some of the other guys so that they have a template that they can go to their attorneys with and take. Every attorney is going to have kind of a boilerplate template that they work with. But you can get other ideas and other templates, and that's kind of what we do in our group meetings, and so we shared several of those with each other this morning too. So and feel free to connect with me if you have questions about that. I'm happy to share any information or some of mine that I found that worked well too.

Speaker 1:

Another component is transportation procedures for the children. That could be times that you are picking up, times that you're dropping off. Where you're picking up, where you're dropping off, who's responsible for picking up and dropping off? Who's responsible for that after holiday time, how that resumes after holiday time. Who is allowed to pick up and drop off if there's a right of first refusal to pick up and drop off the kids all kinds of stuff like that around transportation procedures for the kiddos. Another one is the transition details between visits, and then this can include whether you're picking up and dropping off directly at the other person's home, or that could be that it's at daycare picking up and dropping off at daycare or at school or at after school care or at a grandparent's or a family member's house or whatever it might be. Again, have it in specific detail of what these transitions are going to look like, how they're going to work. I've seen some that are in like real specific detail that they park wherever that at a specific place and the kids come out, or they park at a specific place at a specific time and they make a call or send a text message or a talking parents message, or they ring the doorbell or whatever. You can do however you want. However makes you most comfortable in arranging this.

Speaker 1:

Another component is child care arrangements. So again, this would be around how the kiddos are going to be cared for if you're working which we probably all are, or at least most of us are is what those arrangements are going to be during the respective parent's parenting time, because we definitely want to make sure that there's proper care at all times, obviously for the kiddos, but writing that specifically in the agreement is incredibly helpful. So that might be that you're needing to negotiate or figure out and talk about what that's going to look like with your soon-to-be ex. Is that going to be we're going to have them in daycare and they're going to stay in daycare until they're old enough to go into school, and then, when they're in school, they'll have after school care and they'll be in whatever it's called in your area kids club or after school care, extended school care or whatever that might be. Or is that a family member that's going to be responsible for watching one of the kiddos, or are you going to hire a nanny and have a nanny and that's going to be part of the agreement that you'll have care. That's maybe a traveling nanny that goes in between the homes. Again, this can be however you decide to create it, but specifically talk about it and get it into writing.

Speaker 1:

The next component can be visitation with extended family members. Obviously, we do want to make sure that the kiddos have the opportunity to be spending time with their extended family and their family members. But with divorce comes all this weirdness sometimes, and sometimes there's people that are having hurt feelings or upset and whatnot, and so it makes it a little more difficult to arrange those. So, having that stuff in specific writing, particularly, I think, probably with the family members maybe aunts and uncles and grandparents that they're used to having a relationship with and seeing on a regular basis, having that stuff outlined in real, specific detail as to what that visitation can be like and what that contact with those family members is like. Another component could be rules and restrictions on dating partners for either one of the parents.

Speaker 1:

So, yeah, a lot of the time, many of us and you might not be thinking about this now, which is perfectly fine and probably advisable, but starting to date again and starting to have another romantic relationship and romantic partner is something that is hopefully going to happen in the future, and then how does that get handled between both parents? And then how does that get handled between both parents? And thinking about that from the perspective of how would you want to be treated if it's happening on the other side is a really good perspective from which to guide your thought process around this, and I know this is wrought with a lot of feelings and a lot of emotions. So talk with somebody about it. Talk with somebody who maybe has gone through this, that is divorced, that has had to deal with that, particularly us guys with other men around our children. I know that that can be triggering, no question about it, it can be definitely triggering. And so having conversations with other divorced dads about how to best write in some rules and restrictions around that for yourself as well as your soon-to-be exes, would be really, really critical, and it'll help you to just feel some level of comfort, hopefully, in dealing with that when it comes up.

Speaker 1:

Dealing with that when it comes up, another component could be what happens if one parent must relocate or wants to move. You can have a process around that, some language around just generally moving, as like, if somebody's going to move, giving notification about when that's going to happen, a time frame you can put some minimum time frames in there 30 days notice that we're going to be moving and I think that's really fair, because oftentimes school districts may change. There's all kinds of different considerations. There's again the transitions, the pickups and drop-offs that have to happen, and so being able to plan and help the other parent plan around that, if there is going to be a move or even more than that, a relocation, that you have some real specific language in the parenting plan about how that's going to work out, how you're going to communicate that and what that looks like.

Speaker 1:

Another component could be methods to negotiate the changes to the parenting plan. Now, this is a great one that you definitely want to have and I'm going to say absolutely positively have something in there, because you do not want to be coming back to the court every time that you need to make a change. So some kind of agreement in there that allows you to make changes to the parenting plan outside of court, as long as you both agree to things. And so let say in writing that you're going to do something and deviate from the original parenting plan, and I highly recommend that you have that be something in writing that you both agree to and maybe not so much sign off on, but at least you'll have an exchange of something that you can document to the court that you've both agreed to deviate from the original parenting plan but definitely put something in there on how you're going to do things, because, particularly if you have younger kids, you want to be able to or you're going to have really you're going to have to have some changes over a period of time as life changes and evolves. From the small, small kids to the middle-aged kids you know what I mean Going from the little kids all the way to the teenagers. There's going to be a big change in life and lifestyle and you want to be able to have some flexibility in negotiating those changes in life and lifestyle and you want to be able to have some flexibility in negotiating those changes in the parenting plan.

Speaker 1:

Another one is methods to negotiate disagreements, and this is also a really important one too, to keep you out of court. So hopefully you're going to come to agreement if you're listening to this and you have not yet finalized your divorce. You're going to come to an agreement outside of court. You're not going to have to go to court and have the court make the decision for you. It's always a great idea if you can come to some understanding of maybe 85 or 90 percent of where you feel comfortable to be able to agree upon and not have to go to court, because once you go to court, you are just leaving this in the hands of somebody that is literally spending a few hours maybe listening to your arguments and your soon-to-be ex's arguments and then making a very big decision about your family and your family's future without a ton of information. Now, it's just the way the system is. Again, it's not a knock on anybody that's in the system, but they're doing their job to the best of their abilities within the constraints of the system. I think the system sucks and I think it needs to be completely revamped, but that's what we're stuck with right now, but that's a whole different podcast.

Speaker 1:

So just make sure that you have a way in which you can negotiate disagreements. That could be mediation. That can be binding mediation, which means whatever the mediator says goes. It can be a PCDM, which is a parental coordinator slash decision maker that you bring some of these disagreements to and they will help you to either work through them or they can be the final decision maker on those. So there's different ways to do that, but really really good idea to do that and I've seen this work really really well, and then I've also seen where it's not in the parenting plan. It would be incredibly helpful. So, if you have a high conflict divorce, I highly highly recommend considering this and looking into this and figuring out a way to get this language into your parenting plan. It's going to help you avoid being in court and being with attorneys and paying attorneys and being in front of judges and going through all this headache and stress and strife in the family law court and allow you to be able to work through this more autonomously, albeit with somebody else that is going to help make these decisions. But it can just save you just a lot of time and heartache and definitely a lot of money. Ok, so those are some of the really standard kind of basic things let's talk about now.

Speaker 1:

I mentioned about being detailed in your parenting plan and I know, man, I've already spent almost a half hour just talking about some of the basic standard things. So I'm just gonna briefly go through some more stuff and I know your head might be spinning right now going, oh my God, like this, I didn't even think about half of this, of this stuff, and that's okay. You and everybody else that has gone through doors has not thought about any of this stuff or all this stuff, and it's and you're not going to get a hundred percent of everything figured out in the parenting plan. There is going to be something that is different or unique comes up in your life that wasn't covered, and that's okay. You're wanting, again, to get this as close to being very specific as you can possibly think about. So here's some other things to consider. Also, again, the more detailed you are, the less conflict there will be.

Speaker 1:

Consider also again, the more detailed you are, the less conflict there will be, and potentially being very specific about how that care is going to look. Or even if you're not in that kind of situation but you want to come to some sort of agreement on medications and what that's going to look like as far as you do or don't believe in vaccinations could be one of them or in giving different over-the-counter medications to the kids or not. You can get as detailed as that in your parenting plan. Another one would be maybe special dietary standards If a kiddo has some challenges maybe around diet or medically altered diet because of medical conditions or unique circumstances, so you can put stuff in there that's specific, agreed upon methods of discipline on how you're going to co-parent.

Speaker 1:

Hopefully you'll be able to co-parent and not have to parallel parent. If you don't know the difference between co-parenting and parallel parenting, go back in some of the episodes here and check those out. The difference is we've got at least two or three episodes about co-parenting versus parallel parenting and what the differences are. But if you can't effectively co-parent and you can't agree upon a method of discipline, writing that in there is good as well. To hear the rest of this episode and access the corresponding resources, visit thedivorcedadvocatecom and become a member of our community. It's free to join and we'll provide you with the resources you deserve as a divorced or divorcing dad. Thank you.

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Jude Sandvall: The Divorced Dadvocate

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