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The Divorced Dadvocate: Divorce Support For Dads
The Divorced Dadvocate: Divorce Support For Dads is a weekly podcast designed specifically for fathers navigating divorce. It addresses the unique challenges men face and offers practical guidance, emotional support, and real-life insights to help dads survive — and ultimately thrive — during and after divorce.
Each episode combines honest conversation, personal stories, and action-oriented advice to help listeners rebuild confidence, create healthy co-parenting strategies, manage finances, navigate court complexities, and heal emotionally. Since launching in 2020, the show has become a trusted resource and supportive community for divorced and divorcing dads.
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The Divorced Dadvocate: Divorce Support For Dads
267 - Saving Your Home: Mortgage Assumptions After Divorce
Mortgage assumptions after divorce could save you hundreds of thousands of dollars, yet most attorneys and divorcing homeowners don't understand how to make them work. In this eye-opening conversation, Certified Divorce Lending Professional Karla Kyte reveals the hidden mortgage opportunities many divorces miss.
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Hello and welcome to the show. Thank you so much for tuning in this week and we've got an excellent topic probably a very underserved topic for sure that has probably one of the greatest impacts on everybody who goes through divorce and that may, in fact, not even be known by most people the impact that they experience in going through this and this topic of assumptions today and just basically divorce mortgage as well. So before I get to introduce our guest today, I just wanted to welcome Michael to the Divorced Advocate community. If you're not part of the community, check it out at the the Divorced Advocate community. If you're not part of the community, check it out at thedivorcedadvocatecom. Wherever you're at in divorce, whatever your resources, we have something there for you. And also just a reminder keep this podcast free. If you own a business that takes credit cards or you know of a business that takes credit cards, please refer them here to me at jude at the divorcedadvocatecom. We can save them some money and we can continue to help finance our non-profit that keeps this show going and helps other dads that are in need.
Speaker 1:Okay, my guest today, carla Kite, is a certified divorce lending professional who believes deeply in the power of home ownership. After going through her own divorce, carla realized that staying in her home was only possible because of her mortgage lending expertise and careful planning. That experience sparked her mission to help others navigate the financial and emotional challenges of divorce without losing the roof over their heads. Carla founded my Divorce Mortgage Planning to guide divorcing couples through one of life's toughest transitions. With years of experience in residential mortgage lending, she works to ensure separation agreements are written smartly that is huge properly addressing support payments, debt obligations and every detail that impacts home ownership. She also educates attorneys, realtors and collaborates with other experts nationwide, making her a true leader in the field of divorce mortgage planning. Welcome to the show, carla.
Speaker 2:Thank you, thanks for having me on today.
Speaker 1:My pleasure. Hey, we got to meet. Was it last week already? No, and we had a great conversation and we're going to be talking about assumptions specifically, and how to go through the assumption process, something that's very, very, that can be very complex and complicated but can have a huge, huge impact. But before we jump into that topic, share just a little bit with the audience about what got you into niching divorce and divorce mortgages. I know you talk a little bit about your divorce, but why the shift?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So you know, through my whole lending career I was constantly frustrated with people calling me, asking if I could help them to refinance, and then only to find out that they were not set up properly in the settlement agreement. And I said for years, why don't attorneys reach out to us before they put something in writing that their client can't actually execute? And I didn't know anything about the CDL piece that stands for Certified Divorce Lending Professional. I didn't know anything about the CDL piece that stands for certified divorce lending professional. I didn't know anything about that certification. And I actually expressed, you know, that same feeling to a mediator who I met in a networking group and she said, well, do you have your CDLP? And I was like what in the heck is that? I didn't even know what it was.
Speaker 2:So when I discovered what the certification was, I honestly thought you know, I'll go and get this silly certification and then maybe I'll get some attorneys to work with me. And you know, I can work this as another. You know like little, you know side hustle to my business, right. And then when I did this, I flew down to Arizona, took the certification class and it was a whole lot of I didn't know what I didn't know in this space.
Speaker 2:I had never thought of actually opening a practice where I was consulting and helping people to come up with settlement agreements that actually work. Like, how do we finally get in front of attorneys, attorneys, so they really listen to us and set these people up properly? Because there's so and I can't save everybody, I can't save the homeownership for everyone, but, man, there's a lot of cases where it's just a couple of tweaks here or there, you know, or swapping out one thing for another in terms of an asset or maintenance, or something like that, that can help keep both people in homeownership, which today is very difficult with the cost of housing and the interest rates.
Speaker 1:It's a completely different story today, yeah, and so let's talk a little bit about that because, like I alluded to in the intro, lots of people have no idea that some of the things that they can do and the literally tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars that they can save going through this process primarily because of what you described, which is attorneys don't even know this. You didn't know this, I didn't know this. I didn't know this. When I went through my divorce 12 years ago and I'm in the business too right, I was selling real estate as well.
Speaker 1:So there's just not a whole lot of education out there around this, and the first person that most people go to are attorneys, and attorneys are probably the ones that ignore this the most, because they're trying to get you through the legal process. We're not going to go down that road with the attorneys, but they've got their focus on where they want to go and how they want to get this done. But the ones that do buy into this and do want to get their clients with somebody that's going to do their finances pay attention to that do their mortgages, sell their real estate. Hopefully, mental, emotional help, et cetera just is a service that is amazing for divorcees going through this Because, look, it's a simple math equation we talk about it all the time right, one household into two means there's going to be more expenses. Your living, your environment and your living is going to be different. So if you can minimize that impact as much as possible, not only for yourself but for your kiddos, man, what an amazing life 2.0 you can have.
Speaker 1:And it's a shame that attorneys don't. It's not one of the, because this is like the large one of the, probably the largest asset for the majority of people that are going through divorce and like we've talked about it and we're not going to lament the fact that the first thing they should be doing is like you go get a coach and then you get a mortgage planner, and you get a financial planner and you get a therapist. Right, that should be the next thing you do after you hire an attorney, and the attorney should be telling their clients that. But let's dive into it, because you mentioned the agreements and like temporary agreements and stuff. So take us through a little bit about why that's important and how it can benefit somebody that's going through the divorce and either wants to assume we're going to talk mostly about assumptions and how to do that process, but it kind of all works together in getting qualified for the assumption as well if you want to qualify for purchasing something after.
Speaker 2:Exactly so. First of all, I think the biggest problem is when somebody hires an attorney or maybe in the state of Colorado they could use an LLP or any kind of divorce professional.
Speaker 2:They're looking to that person to guide them through the whole entire process, looking to that person to guide them through the whole entire process. Here's the problem. Almost all attorneys say reach out to your lender, call your lender right. And so clients either call their lender that helped them buy the home or they call their servicer, the person that they're paying their mortgage to. Right now, those are not certified divorce lending professionals. Okay, so that's the first step is getting to a CDLP. The second step is getting to a CDLP that actually runs a fee-based business. That will look very objectively at your case and help you figure out the best path to move forward, because if you're working, with.
Speaker 1:I want to stop on that because, being in the industry, I know a little bit more and I want to make that point that you just made, which is somebody that's feed-based.
Speaker 1:And the reason you and I'm just going to save you because you probably won't say it, but I will say it the reason for that is because there are multitude of ways that mortgage lenders can make money on the back end of your mortgage.
Speaker 1:So if they are only looking to make the maximum amount of money, it's not necessarily going to be in your best interest. And that's not to say, that's not to slam any mortgage lenders or anything like that, but there are, like there's bad actors everywhere, right? So if you find somebody like Carla that's gonna talk to you upfront and charge you to create a plan for this, then hopefully you're gonna use Carla right, and you should, because she really knows how to get through it, but you're gonna have a plan that is the best plan for you, not a plan that might be it's gonna be good for you, but it's gonna be really good for you, but it's going to be really good for the lender, right, because they're going to maybe make a lot more money on that. So I just wanted to point that out. That is a huge, huge point that I think that is unknown out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Sorry continue.
Speaker 2:No, that's fine. If they call their servicer or their past loan officer. They're just going to talk them into a refinance because they don't make a dime unless they actually do a loan for you. If they call a CDLP, you might get a little bit of a mixed bag, but if they're not charging you anything, understand that the only way that they are going to ever make money off of you is if they get you to do a loan with them, right. Make money off of you is if they get you to do a loan with them, right. So really it is in your best interest to go with a fee-based CDLP that's going to look at your case objectively, because a lot of people are in these very low rate mortgages that we're going to talk about. You know, doing an assumption and it might make the best sense for you to do an assumption, and I will preface that, and now we're going to get into this. It doesn't always make sense to do an assumption in the case of a divorce.
Speaker 2:So that's the first thing is you know attorneys and divorce professionals. They don't know what they don't know when they're saying call your lender like they need to be more specific and call somebody who's really going to help you through this process, you know. So when I bring somebody in as a new client, I look at how they qualify today without having any support or paying out any support. What does your qualification look like right now? And then as we get further into the divorce and we figure out who's going to get what and who's paying who how much, then we can take those pieces and move them around and figure out what's the best path forward. And people will hire me often as a couple and I will work for both of them and I will give them both the best advice that I can give them for them both to remain in homeownership. If I'm only working with one client, I will be their advocate and I will figure out whatever way I can to keep them in homeownership.
Speaker 1:So when is it a good idea to do an assumption and when is it a bad idea to do an assumption?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so this is very.
Speaker 1:And let's define what an assumption is first versus what a refi is and what their other options are.
Speaker 2:Okay, so let me start with this.
Speaker 2:Okay, so let me start with this. During COVID, our rates got extremely low and almost everybody I know refinanced into a new mortgage during COVID. I would say the majority of those people refinanced into a Fannie Mae or a Freddie Mac loan. Okay, on the closing disclosure and this is a big giveaway that I'm giving in this right In this podcast, this is huge On your closing disclosure, when you did that refinance or when you purchased during those low rate years, your closing disclosure clearly stated that this loan is not assumable.
Speaker 2:Okay, so these loans are not assumable. So if people just go straight to their documents, they're going to read that and they're going to think, ah, I can't assume this loan from my ex spouse anyway. But Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac both have a clause that states if you're going through a divorce, they will allow for what's called a release of liability. So those loans are not assumable in the sense that if you put that home on the market and a third party wanted to buy your house from you, they can't assume that loan at the current rate. But if you're going through a divorce, you can release your spouse of the liability on that mortgage, but you have to go through an entire requalification process, just like you did when you refinanced your purchase. Okay, and you have to do that with the servicer.
Speaker 2:And here's the problem. A lot of people, when they refinanced their purchase, they left one person off of the loan. So like, let's say, bob and Jane own a home together. Bob and Jane might both be on title, but maybe only Bob is on the mortgage. If Jane is keeping the home, she can ask the servicer if they will do a release of liability and allow her to take over that loan. But you've got to think about that. That's not really a release of liability.
Speaker 2:That's adding Jane on and removing Bob. So at that point it's a lender discretion call. At that point you just have to ask have I seen it happen? Yes, I have. I've seen it happen with my own eyes, so it's possible. You have to ask the right questions. When you call the servicer, don't ask if your loan is assumable. Ask if they will allow for a release of liability and if they will release your spouse that is not staying in the home.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well and yeah, well, and I want to say when you call, hopefully you've already talked to Carla, right, because if you call, the call might go like this no, it's not assumable. Thanks for calling, goodbye, right, like they're not going to look into the details of your loan for you on the phone. Because, frankly, there's little, there's very little incentive for them to do that. Right, and do you want to talk about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's very little incentive. Of course they don't want to keep the loan on the records and it's not even necessarily that they want to redo a new loan for you they would love that, but more so they just kind of want that low rate mortgage off the books, right. So there is no incentive there and they don't make assumptions easy. So like where I come in and where I help people with the divorce mortgage planning piece is we look at that and we look to see can Bob qualify to keep that mortgage without Jane? And this is where it gets really tricky for me and I have to give a big disclaimer when I'm working with clients, I can only do this to the best of my ability.
Speaker 2:I don't work for your servicer. I'm not the one that's going to make that final call on whether or not it will be approved or not. I know typically what they're looking for in terms of guidelines. It's typically what's called a manual underwrite. So I think the thing that people need to be really careful of is that as a lender, I could do a loan for you at a very different qualification than what you're going to go through under this release of liability or assumption, whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 1:Right. So what you're saying is there could be different criteria by which the servicer is going to make that determination. It might actually be easier for you to qualify to get a new loan than to assume it.
Speaker 2:The criteria to do an assumption in the case of a divorce release of liability. That's kind of interchangeable. The criteria is it's more difficult, it's tighter guidelines. They want lower and why is that so when you do? I don't know why they're not running it through the automated system, but they're running all of these as manual underwrite.
Speaker 1:And let's just clarify what manual underwrite. And let's just clarify what manual underwrite. Manual underwrite means that the file's actually going to an underwriter, they're taking a look at it, they're scrutinizing it, they're asking you questions coming back, as opposed to automated, which is an automated system that it kind of just gives the, you put in all the parameters and then it gives you an approval and then provide the documentation in it. As long as the documentation supports what you put into the system, you're good.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's a pretty yes. Yes, because there still is a human underwriter that checks all of that documentation. But what automated underwriting allows for is like it looks at the whole file and if you have really good credit and you have lots of assets, it will let you exceed the guidelines for debt ratio. So like if the debt ratio guideline is 45, automated underwriting often lets us go to 49.9 as long as you have decent credit and a couple extra bucks in the bank. Often lets us go to 49.9 as long as you have decent credit and a couple extra bucks in the bank.
Speaker 2:When you're doing these release of liability or assumptions, you are held hard at 45% and that's just the back-end debt ratio. That's not even working at the front-end. So the investor might also have a requirement for the front-end debt ratio. So your front end is just your housing to the income. Your back end debt ratio is your housing and all of your monthly debt to your income. So they are going to be looking at this just under much stricter guidelines. So you have to be prepared for that guidelines.
Speaker 1:You have to be prepared for that, and so, then, what makes it so important to talk to somebody like you is, then, in structuring a temporary agreement or a post-snap, that there are ways in which you can ensure not ensure, but position them to be better able to qualify for that assumption right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I literally have people every week that make agreements that they can't execute and so, like the one that just came to mind, she agreed to assume the loan and she never even checked to see what she would look like on paper. And she owns an insurance agency and she is technically self-employed and she comes nowhere close to qualifying for anything, let alone to assume this mortgage from her ex. And she's in an agreement where she has to get this assumption done in six months. Or there's always that verbiage, or if you can't make this happen, you got to sell your house, right.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:No, she's going to have no choice. She's going to have to sell her house. I asked her if she has a co-signer so we can do like a refinance instead. But she's hemming and hawing because she wants to hold on to that low rate and I get it, but it's not going to happen. Like there is no way under the sun that she will qualify to assume that current loan.
Speaker 1:Right and let's and let's talk about that a little bit because some of the the things that are necessary to to qualify are the same as if you would be qualifying independently.
Speaker 1:However, there's timelines that are different here, like with income and things that you can count towards income, say spousal support, et cetera that if you have this written into your agreement, that then it helps you because it starts to clock sooner.
Speaker 1:So let's say, your divorce takes nine months right, I think that's a fair timeframe nine to 12 months and you put in something in your agreement let's talk a little bit about this and how you can do that Put something in your agreement that allows you to then demonstrate to the servicer or the bank that you then have this and then also, depending upon what happens at your final orders, that that's going to go for a period of time that is enough to allow you to qualify. I just said that in general terms because I want you to dial into a little more granular around that, because, no, I don't think anybody knows or understands this. Part of it is you've got to demonstrate income and that you you know the, the spousal support, whichever way or whatever you're using, can be done, whichever way or whatever you're using can be done can be utilized for that, yeah.
Speaker 2:So if you are the person receiving support and different loan types have different requirements, and so I'm going to go back to assumptions here in just a minute. This is just a general qualifying requirement for income. So for a conventional loan Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and most jumbo loans you have to have received the support for six months on time, and then it has to continue for three years after the date of closing on the loan or the refinance or the assumption whatever. For an FHA loan, you only need three months. Receipt Still has to continue for three years. Okay, three months. Receipt still has to continue for three years, Okay.
Speaker 2:So when you're negotiating support, like if you do anything less than I mean, if you're getting support for three years, it's not going to help you a single bit, Right, and so like something you could do there, if you're getting 10 grand a month for three years, that's not going to help you at all. But maybe you lower that to eight grand a month and stretch it out for a few more years and then you've got qualifying income to help you there.
Speaker 1:So that's where talking to somebody like you can help in the negotiations, and particularly if the couple is doing this and is amicable and can talk about hey, let's do this, let's try this. Maybe there's an asset that I give you or we trade, an asset that offsets whatever this is and you can set yourself up both of you up for success post-divorce.
Speaker 2:Yes, 100%, and I've absolutely helped couples figure that out. So one of the things you were talking about was temporary orders, I think. So that's really important too, and a lot of attorneys don't want to get into temporary orders. But there's different things with temporary orders. The reason I want temporary orders is because it starts that clock ticking right. If we need six months and three months or whatever for us to count temporary orders to get that clock ticking right. If we need six months and three months or whatever for us to count temporary orders to get that clock ticking for qualifying income, we have to have a court order in place and the payment has to be made from an individual account to an individual account. So Bob and Jane can't have a joint account that's paying Jane her support every month it has to come from Bob to Jane.
Speaker 2:Court order has to be in place and then we can start counting that for that three months or six months, whatever timeframe we need. Now if they go to their attorney and they say I need to get temporary support put in place because I need to start counting for my mortgage, and the attorney is like, oh my God, no, that's really costly, blah, blah, blah, I will tell you this If you guys are amicable, this is not costly. It's simply a stipulation and it's very easy to execute. It's very easy to get into place. If you're not amicable, you probably won't get it. And it's a and it is a big big thing, right? So that's very different. But talking about just amicable clients, this is something easy to get into place.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and for those listening, I just wanted to. It's called different things in different places. Temporary orders is that it's your temporary agreement while you're going through the divorce process to your final final orders or or or whatever you know if you're going to trial and then you get file orders. So what it does, is it it? It? It separates everything, both categories financial, what's happening, who's paying what, what's a spousal support might be more like all of that stuff, and then also it will it will determine what parenting time is, et cetera, and all that. So basically it's a temporary setup and agreement, but there are myriads of reasons that it is beneficial. Sometimes it's not, but for the most part I feel like it can be a positive for a myriad of reasons, but specifically and most importantly for the financial piece of it, with the mortgage lending in particular, because then, like you said, and I'm just going to reiterate that then when those temporary orders are executed and let's say there's spousal support, that's happening, then that that then starts that timeline, instead of waiting the nine months or the 12 months until the divorce is finalized and then it gives and then you might have to be waiting Well, depending on where you're getting the loan right Three months, six months, whatever it might be in order to count that income, so you're just able to get things going faster.
Speaker 1:It makes it so much easier. You can potentially reduce or eliminate the need to do a double move right To move somewhere temporarily before you can qualify for another property and then move again. That makes the transition so much easier on your kiddos. So by doing this, by doing the temporary order, by having it structured very clearly, then you're just putting yourself way, way ahead of the curve and getting all this stuff done and getting all your life settled. So continue. I just want to clarify some of that.
Speaker 2:Well, the bills are getting paid anyway. Well, hopefully, right, I guess some cases they're not, but in most cases the bills are still getting paid. All we're doing is a little shift of money so that we can start counting income for that person that needs it, and I mean, this is incredibly important to the stay-at-home parent, and that could be stay-at-home mom or stay-at-home dad. My situation at my house is my husband's been a stay at home dad for years, so, like for him to continue on and be able to purchase anything or be able to keep the home, I would have to put temporary orders in place so that by the time we finalize, he's in a place that he can move on, right? So, yeah, and it doesn't. The temporary order doesn't have to match the permanent order Exactly. It needs to be in the ballpark, like you might have temporary orders at four grand a month and then when they go permanent, they're 4,500.
Speaker 2:That's okay, we just want to see that one payment of permanent support and then we'll count that 4,500. So I wanted to talk really quick is difficult and if you need support to help you qualify for an assumption, then you're possibly pushed out even further. But I want to tell you every servicer is different on this and so I've seen some servicers just run with the court order and not have that six month receipt requirement, which is very strange to me, because there's no way under the Senate ever be able to do that for somebody if I was doing a refinance or a purchase for them. We have to show this receipt. So when you're doing an assumption it could look something like this If you don't put a temporary order in place and we go through the process to see if you qualify, we know you don't qualify.
Speaker 2:You need that support to qualify.
Speaker 2:Let's say that you're not amicable, so temporary orders is not even an option, right? So then at the time of final decree, which is usually when the investors will allow you to start that assumption process, they usually won't allow you to start before you have final decree. So you get final decree and then you need to show six months of support to qualify. So then you don't qualify for another six months, then you submit right and then the assumption process I always tell everybody can take like six to eight months. So in your settlement agreement you have to make sure that you're allowed the time that you need to get this process done, because if you need support to qualify you might have to wait that six months. Some of them won't make you wait, but they're not going to communicate this with you before either. So your settlement agreement has to be really specific on this. Especially if you're not amicable, you need to make sure that the attorneys and the judges understand the timeline that you're up against if you're trying to salvage this interest rate and do an assumption.
Speaker 1:Right, and that would be at least 12 months. I would say and I think this is probably the number one thing I see all the time which is okay, you have six months to do it, and it's just not feasible, right, like I get guys all the time that are oh well, and then if they have somebody that's not agreeable they're taking them back for contempt If they don't have it done in six months and then you're spending more money and you're arguing more, like it becomes a big giant nightmare. So at least 12 months, really 18 months, because, like you said, if you need the six months to qualify, then you need like 12 months to deal with the servicers and just know you're going to be on the phone with them nonstop. You're going to be calling them, it is, you're following up with them. Again, they have no incentive.
Speaker 1:Just think of it as that you're working with somebody that has no incentive to do this. If there's something on their desk, or literally, if it's lunchtime or it's to do your servicing, they're going to eat lunch, right. There's just no incentive whatsoever. So the longer you put this out, the better. Let's talk for a quick second about, let's say, you are the breadwinner, if you will and you're going to be the one paying spousal support and child support. Paying spousal support and child support, then if you have the temporary orders in place, does that help? If you're doing that, does that start the timeline the same for them as it would if they were receiving it, or do they still have to wait until final orders and then know exactly what that dollar amount is going to be?
Speaker 2:Okay, so you're the main income earner and you're going to be paying the support and you're keeping the house and you want to assume the loan. Is that the case, correct, okay?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So temporary orders really has no impact here in that case, because they can't start the assumption process until they have final decree anyway and the permanent orders will be part of that. So there's no impact. Temporary orders has no impact on that at all.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 1:So for the dads listening, if they're going to be paying spousal support, child support, then this isn't going to have an impact for them, but it will have an impact on their soon to be ex.
Speaker 1:So that if you guys are amicable and you're able to communicate, you can say hey look, we want to be, we want you to be in a good position, so we need to get these temporary orders in place. So I'm going to assume, I'm going to assume the place, but we want you to be able to qualify for something, let's say when, when we're done, so that there's a there's a smoother transition to either moving out or finding a new play, whatever it might be. So let's get this set up and started. And then you know this is while I'm working on the assumption and doing that you can be finding your mortgage broker, you can be looking for homes, you can start that process knowing relatively confidently that you're going to be able to qualify for something. Once you know, provided they have all the regular income requirements, they have a job like, the job is seasoned enough, they've had it for long, et cetera, right, all the same things that they would be qualifying for, but at least they are able to count this income Correct.
Speaker 2:Yep absolutely.
Speaker 1:Okay, got it. So how about some tips I just alluded to it in dealing with? So they're going to be working with you, but in their work with you, you're the coach, right, Like you're not the one executing this, You're the coach, they're the quarterback, right. They're going to have to be dealing with servicers. Give us some tips on how to deal with servicers and how to talk to them. How often to call them? Do you bug them? Do you blow up their emails and do what do you do with these servicers that have little to no interest in really helping you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so unfortunately the servicer dictates the communication. And just to be really clear, so when I do divorce mortgage planning with couples, they can retain me for the planning piece and I help them get set up for this. If they want to also hire me to execute the assumption, I will help them with the facilitation of the assumption. So I will be there to kind of coach them through it. I will help them with the paperwork and all of that.
Speaker 2:And those are two separate things. But, believe it or not, there are some servicers out there that will only deal with you via snail mail.
Speaker 1:No joke. Well, I'm not surprised. I've been in the business long enough, so that doesn't surprise me. But it might surprise everybody else that's listening Sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, is that not the craziest thing in?
Speaker 1:this thing. It's insane. Yeah, we should just be faxing them too, right?
Speaker 2:craziest thing in this thing. Yeah, we should just be faxing them too, right? Yeah, to me it's just. Let's just poke you a little bit more and see if you really want to go through this process, right, um, so, but not all of them, I think, and I can't remember who it is right now, but somebody has actually gone to an online application, which was shocking. That was a client I talked to last month, and so they really dictate that process.
Speaker 2:Most of them will say, once you submit everything to me, and like I will, I'll call out Chase really quick because I think they've done a decent job at the assumptions. They're very clear Do not, do not submit this until your final decree. You got to have that in hand and then we're going to work with you and I think, in all fairness, the reason that they are not interested in doing anything before is because things change during the course of the divorce process. Things are negotiated out differently, so what you might think is going to happen might not be what actually happens. So why are we going to waste our time on this? There is a fee for going through an assumption. I've not seen anything over $2,000. So just expect that from the investor, but they make you wait until your divorce is final and then you submit everything to them and then what they say is once we've received all of your documents, we get 45 days and then we'll get back to you within 45 days. So if they're communicating with you over email, that's fantastic. They're not big at talking on the phone. Reason why is because you know when you're doing assumption, when you did your loan, when you did your refinance, you had somebody like me, you had a loan officer. Whether you were working with a bank or a broker or whatever, you had a loan officer that was basically holding your hand through the process and getting you through this. I mean, we don't get paid if you don't close, so we have a huge incentive to get you to that finish line.
Speaker 2:When you're doing an assumption, there's nobody in your corner that is gunning for you Like it is not a thing, and so you don't have any help. So I also don't think that these services that are doing this they don't they don't have the people to to necessarily handle this Like assumptions have not been a thing since the eighties. Okay, like it just hasn't. So the assumption departments with the services are thin, and probably the people that they have in there that are fielding any phone calls or doing the emails. They're probably entry-level people, right? So they probably don't have any mortgage knowledge. The underwriters who are actually signing off on these and approving these? Well, I don't know. Have you ever talked to an underwriter? No, because that's our job as lenders. We handle that between you and the underwriter, right? Underwriters are not consumer-facing people, so I think there's a bit of a breakdown there, right.
Speaker 2:Underwriters are not consumer facing people, so I think there's just a there's a bit of a breakdown there, right. So, like they're going to, they're going to set the, they're going to set how they want to communicate and how they will communicate with you. Hopefully it's at least email.
Speaker 1:Okay. So so you're not, you're not likely to be able to get somebody on the phone. The person you do get on the phone and the 1-800 number is going to give you limited to no information. So that's why it's incumbent upon you to be able to find your loan docs. First, look at your loan docs. If you can't understand or figure out what it says, what you can and can't do in your loan docs and then, when you do call them, that you may or may not get the right answer based upon that. That's why it's incredibly important to take it to somebody like Carla and say, hey, here's my loan docs, let's talk about this. Is this something that I can do? That's just the very start of the process, because then, after Carla puts the plan together for you, you can take it and execute it on your own if you want, or you can work with her. I highly recommend working with her because you do not want to have to be doing this on your own. This is from somebody that's done loans, so I used to be a lender too right, and it is highly complex. It is highly frustrating.
Speaker 1:There is so many things that go on during this process that it is money well worth it. And look, here's the fact of the matter. You are saving, over the life of your loan, by getting this assumption down, potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars. So pay the thousands of dollars to get this done with Carla and get it done and have it set, and don't try to do it yourself. Again, you can do it yourself, but it comes down to the same philosophy. You can do your brakes on your car if you want, or you can fix your engine or anything else If you want. To take the time and you want to go through the brain damage and maybe you're going to screw something up and it's going to really screw up your car or your future finances or your home or your kid's home and all that. I don't know about you, but I don't want to mess with that. Spend the money at least to get a plan through Carla and I know sometimes finances are a difficult challenge and whatnot, but it's important.
Speaker 2:You said something there that kind of brought something else up.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And we kind of touched on this earlier but we didn't go into it. So when does an assumption not make sense?
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:You know, everybody thinks that assuming their mortgage is the best way to go, always because they've got a low rate, like a sub three interest rate, right. But you have to look at what is the total cost of keeping this house. Because you might have a mortgage of $200,000 at two and a half, but you might owe your spouse $400,000. And you might think that it's so important that you keep this two and a half interest rate. You might owe your spouse $400,000. And you might think that it's so important that you keep this two and a half interest rate that you will drain another asset to pay out that $400,000.
Speaker 2:So that's what I help people understand too is let's look at the big picture, because everybody today is so, so rate sensitive and they are so honed in on just keeping their current mortgage rate they don't care what the cost is to buy out. I have seen people give up their entire retirements. Bad move You're getting rid of an account that's compounding interest and that's going to take you how long to build back up. You have to look at the whole entire picture here and you have to again. This is where it comes down to working with a fee-based CDLP, because we are going to give you the actual rundown of what is your best case scenario moving forward, Not what's best for me and if I'm going to make any money off of you or not. Right, right. So it's so important to go through this whole process.
Speaker 1:That's a great point and that's like an even bigger conversation. But the takeaway for me on that is not only do you need a certified divorce mortgage expert like Carla, you need a certified divorce mortgage expert like Harla, you need a certified divorce financial professional also that can then look at all of the rest of that stuff your retirement, your pensions, whatever other assets you have. There's lots of different ways to maneuver this. That's the beauty. If you've created all these assets which is a fantastic thing you just need somebody that can be smart and help you through that process, and that's a whole nother thing in splitting up 401ks or IRAs and there's tricks and stuff that you can do with that as well. But if you've got Carla and then you've got the financial person as well, and then you're all working in conjunction, even if you can't cooperate with your soon-to-be ex, at least you can bring this information to the court.
Speaker 1:If you've got a plan and you've got a good plan and I'll say, if you've done the work and you have experts like Carla and a financial person, and you bring this to court and you demonstrate to the court why this makes sense for everybody involved, you are much better positioned and they are more inclined to rule in your favor than if you just show up.
Speaker 1:You don't do any of this and then I'm telling you what's going to happen is it's going to be just split it and sell the house. That's the default, and then you lose hundreds, if not millions, of dollars by doing that. So even if you are in a high conflict and I'd say if you are in a high conflict it's even more important for you to do this and pay attention to this and bring all of the knowledge and the education, because again we'll come full circle. The attorneys don't know this information. The judges, who are former attorneys, don't know this information. So even if they don't give an immediate ruling at your hearing, even when they go back and they look, and they look at the transcripts and the testimony, they still don't understand this stuff. So if you don't have an expert like Carla or an expert for finances, and you have this out there, it's just they're not going to know.
Speaker 2:They're not going to figure it out for you. Their job is to legally separate you. Right, their job is not legally separate you Right. It's their job is not to know any of this stuff you know, and and you're right Like a CDFA is.
Speaker 2:I mean, I, I don't. I don't know the value of the equity in the home compared to your retirement accounts, compared to the cash in the bank. That's where a CDFA, a certified divorce financial analyst, comes in and really like, together we are able to come up with, hopefully, a really good solution, you know, for you to remain in homeownership and not lose your tail on all of your assets and so on. So I, I love the CDFAs that I work with and it's just so important to know that, like attorneys know legally how to separate you. That doesn't mean that it will work with mortgage guidelines.
Speaker 1:Nope, exactly, and we can just leave it at that. If you, if, if it is, if, unfortunately, the first thing you did was hire an attorney, that's OK. You still need an attorney on your team, that's good. The next thing you should is a coach, and the next thing you should get is then your financial people and your therapist, and and then and then trainer, ok, so then you have your team helping you mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually, and you're going to be able to get your finances done. You're going to go through the legal system and you're going to come out this. It sounds real easy, right, but having gone through it, right, both of us knowing that it's not that easy.
Speaker 1:There's a lot going on and we're talking just specific numbers here and how to deal with services. We're not even talking about the mental, emotional aspect of a house, or a house that you built together or remodeled or whatever, and changing all that stuff. So we do recognize that there is a lot that goes on with that, but that's just again. For me, that's just another reason to bring somebody to your team that's going to help support you and that's going to be looking at this aspect of it, right, the attorneys look at the legal aspect. They're very narrow. Carla's looking at the mortgage aspect that's very narrow. The divorce planner is, or the financial divorce planner is looking at that that's very narrow. A coach might be looking at it all holistically for you. Your therapist is looking at you mentally, emotionally. That's very narrow, right. So having all these people together helping support you and then a coach that's guiding you through it really is the best way to go.
Speaker 2:And that's the beauty Like when we all work together, we can make amazing things happen. And I think that might sound like, oh my God, like I'm shelling out all this money in all these different directions. The money that it costs you to not do this is far greater.
Speaker 1:It is and that's the. That is the unintended, unknown consequence of all of this, one that you get post-divorce and then all this is just a mess. And that's where I would get a lot of guys coming like I'm in contempt because I didn't get it done. I wanted to get the assumption done. I said six months and I'm like, well, it's too late now. Well, you're talking to me now I can't get you to anybody that's going to really help you through this at this point. Or you don't qualify, or whatever it might be.
Speaker 1:The, the unintended is that you've lost thousands of dollars and you don't even know it. You don't even know it because you just got through it and that's the. Unfortunately, that's kind of the attorney's mindset. Well, if we just get them through the divorce, that's the thing and the how you get them through and the quality is really, really important. That's where the rest of us really come in. So, carla, where can? So Carla? Carla does this across the country and and and maybe I don't know, we have listeners across the world and I don't know you probably you're not going to be able to do the loan, but you might be able to give some guidance around, around lending, but at least in the United States, and you do also lend in all 50 States, in the United States too, right? So where can the listeners get ahold of you and contact you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so my company that I founded is my Divorce Mortgage Planning. I am based out of Denver, colorado. I will let you know there's many places within my website where you can just go in and book a call. I don't do free consultations, so to get on my calendar you do have to go through that link and pay for that little time slot and that's not really for me to solve your problems in that 20 minute phone call. That's to see if we are fit to work together. If I think that I can help you through your situation, so at that point you can then retain me to work with you through your divorce process, where I will help you with the whole planning stage of mortgage and how to either keep you in the marital home or move on and purchase a new home.
Speaker 2:Everybody's situation is incredibly unique and so it's really just taking the time to find out what do you want. Can we do that, and if we can't, what's the alternative? To me, staying in homeownership is absolutely the most important thing that I did during my divorce. So I've only rented a home for six months out of my whole life since I turned 20. And that was when we remodeled this home. So I am a fan of homeownership through and through and it's just, it's. It's important, it's an important way to grow your wealth and, you know, continue that stability on for your family.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Perfect. So the the website is mydivorcemortgageplanningcom. Check it out. Get the help that you need, you deserve. Get connected with Carla. Carla, thanks so much for sharing a tip of the iceberg of your expertise and what's going on, but really give us the lowdown on how to get this done in the right way. I sincerely appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you for having me on. Assumptions are huge right now. Big topic right now.
