The Divorced Dadvocate: Divorce Support For Dads

270 - The Truth About Guardian Ad Litems That Every Dad Needs to Know

• Jude Sandvall • Season 6 • Episode 270

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Court-appointed Guardian Ad Litems can significantly impact divorce outcomes but often present challenges for fathers seeking fair custody arrangements. They serve as independent investigators tasked with determining what arrangement best supports a child's safety and development, though their recommendations frequently disadvantage dads.

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Speaker 1:

Hello and welcome to the show. Thanks for tuning in again this week. I sincerely appreciate you being here. We have an important topic this week and that is whether or not you should worry about a guardian ad litem in your divorce case. But before we jump in, as usual, let's welcome our newest member to the Divorced Advocate community. That is David Welcome.

Speaker 1:

If you're not part of the Divorced Advocate community, check out the website directly at thedivorcedadvocatecom. That is where we house all of our resources. It is the central place where you can get all of the help that you need or that you want. I do want to point out on the website we have a new page. It is our Trusted Allies page. Go and check that out. These are individuals that have been carefully vetted that are coming on board and alongside us as a community to assist you in the challenges that you're going through. Some of these people are sponsors that have been paid. Some of them are working or that have paid us. Some of them are working with us and collaborating with us, maybe doing Q&As, doing live events, wherever they might be at, but they are trusted allies that we're bringing more and more and more on so that we can get everybody the help that they need, wherever you're at in your divorce, wherever you're at in the country or the world, so that you all have a resource. So check that out at the website. It is our new Trusted Allies page.

Speaker 1:

Okay, we're going to be talking. We are talking about what a guardian ad litem, and so I apologize. Gentlemen, I have never done a podcast in five years on what a guardian ad litem is and the benefits or the detriments to that. And on that note, I just want to point out if you ever have a topic that you can't find help about or information about at our website, at thedivorcedadvocatecom, or while you're involved in our community, or just need some feedback, please send me an email at judeatthedivorcedadvocatecom and let me know, so that I have a ton of information. I have a ton of knowledge, obviously, but sometimes stuff like this slips through the crack. I don't know why I haven't done this podcast. I don't know why I haven't talked about this. You're getting me solo this week. We've had lots of great, amazing guests really over the last three weeks. Last three or four weeks, I think, have been some of the best information and content that we've put together in quite a long time. And then this one this week with the Guardian ad litem. I think is important. It came up because I was on a call with a guy yesterday that was talking about his terrible experience with a guardian ad litem and it just struck me that we hadn't talked about it.

Speaker 1:

So let's get into this. As you know, divorce and custody battles are challenging and when you're trying to be a dad, that's proving you're not just a weekend parent but a consistent, loving and capable father, which seems like we are all doing all the time because of the lens and the bent of the family law court. So you might have a guardian ad litem that is appointed by the court, or you might have the attorneys that will recommend that you get a guardian ad litem appointed. So this might worry you. It should worry you. There are some potential benefits to it, but there are some drawbacks too. So this is just another person, right Another stranger, involved amongst many other strangers of this family law cottage industry court that is going to be involved in this situation. So, again, it can be positive, there can be positive outcomes and it can be helpful, but there are a myriad of drawbacks to pay attention to. So let's break it down specifically in how it plays out for divorced or divorcing dads.

Speaker 1:

First, what is it? What is a guardian ad litem? This is the best definition I can come up with. It's a person appointed by the court. So you can either agree to it regardless. If you agree to it or not, the court will appoint one point one, and what they are there to do is to represent the best interests of a child during the legal proceeding. So this is a representative directly representing and looking at the best interests of your kiddos. It's usually in custody, visitation or abuse and neglect cases, but not always. I'm seeing it used more and more just in a high conflict.

Speaker 1:

The guardian ad litem is not a lawyer for the child or either of the parents. Instead, all they're doing is they're acting as an independent investigator. An advocate is really the best way, as an independent investigator and advocate is really the best way an independent advocate tasked with figuring out what arrangement or outcomes best supports the child's safety, well-being and development. So they can be attorneys, they can be social workers, they can be specially trained professionals. This kind of all depends on the state. This is also where it kind of becomes difficult and challenging if they're not just guardian ad litems and this is just not how they're making their living. This is one of the challenges that I find. It's the same challenge I find with the PCDMs, the same challenge I find less so with the PREs. Also, some of these new what are they called? Licensed legal professionals, llps in Colorado here and some other places across the country. So it's kind of some folks doing side stuff which if you kind of do stuff as a hobby, you know that you're not exactly proficient at it. But I start to digress off the bat.

Speaker 1:

Let's talk about how a guardian ad litem works in court. So once a guardian ad litem is appointed, they begin an independent investigation. Now, item is appointed, they begin an independent investigation. Now they can either be actively investigating or they can be passively working with the children and the parents. They're going to interview both parents to start out, or both guardians to start out. They're going to talk to the child or the children if that's age appropriate. They're going to observe, potentially, parent-child interactions, hopefully. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. They could potentially visit your home. They will take information that is provided to them review school medical counseling records, other stuff like that. They could speak with teachers or doctors or therapists or anybody else that is involved in a child's life.

Speaker 1:

So what they'll do is, after gathering information, they will either write just a full-scale report to pay, on the scope that they've been given by the court in the court order. So it could be just a report at the end of a specific investigation, or it could be ongoing, where they're reporting to the court on an ongoing basis what they feel is something that is necessary. They'll talk about the summary of their findings, they'll create an analysis of the child's needs and then they'll make recommendations on what should happen. Maybe that's custody, parenting time or whatever other decision that might affect the child. Now the other thing to keep in mind and to know is that in the courtroom, the guardian ad litem may testify as a witness. So that's going to be big and we're going to talk about that here in a moment. Their report is submitted in.

Speaker 1:

Whatever they submit to the court is evidence, so it can be used for or against you, and then judges often give just like they do any third party, quote, unquote, expert significant weight to the guardian ad litem's recommendation. So, especially when parents are highly conflicted or when there are concerns about safety, neglect or manipulation which those last three are really important. High conflict we're going to talk about why that can get somewhat misconstrued and weaponized against you. So it's important for you to know that the guardian ad litem is not on your side and they are not on your ex's side. Their only role is to look out for the child's best interest, even if that means recommending something neither parent wants. All right, so this sounds great. Right, so it sounds like, well, it's just somebody looking out for the kiddo.

Speaker 1:

And I've had lots of guys agree to this and it has turned out horribly, horribly wrong. Now I'm going to. I've put together some positives. I'll be honest with you, it's been a little bit. It's a little bit of a challenge with these positives. I'm going to convey them in the light of them being a positive, but I'm also going to talk about what potentially is wrong with this, with this positive. The first positive is what I just stated the child's needs stay front and center.

Speaker 1:

Many of our high conflict, divorces and custody battles often become about what maybe each parent wants, but the court cares about what's the best interest of the kid, and the guardian ad litem is supposed to bring the focus back to the best interest of the kids and they'll assess who's more stable, more engaged and better equipped to meet the child's emotional, educational, physical needs, not who wins more arguments, et cetera. So for dads, this can be really really good if you've been the steady one while your ex is creating drama, moving frequently, using the child as a pawn, et cetera, the guardian ad litem, hopefully, will notice this and it's a chance to separate parenting from the fight and prove you're in this for your kid not to score points. Now that sounds terrific, except that typically when there is a high conflict, it is one or the other person that is just not reasonable and wanting to agree or come to terms or negotiate or agree or figure out or put the kids in the forefront and as the most important thing, and so those people that do that and the person that is that are usually often very manipulative. So, while it is supposed to be focused on your kiddos and the guardian ad litem can hopefully, if they're well-trained and good, can see through that, oftentimes that is not the case and they become a tool to manipulate. So we're going to talk about that in the negatives a little bit later. To manipulate so we're going to talk about that in the negatives a little bit later.

Speaker 1:

Another positive for dads is it can level the playing field if you're being unfairly painted. Let's just be real about this. Dads walk into court already at a disadvantage. Your ex is potentially playing the victim better than you are, and maybe there are and oftentimes are especially in high conflict false allegations. Maybe you've made a mistake or two in the past, which happens, and we all make them as parents and it's being exaggerated or used against you now.

Speaker 1:

So this is where a guardian ad litem can help. They don't just rely on what your ex says in court documents. They dig deeper. They talk to both sides. They visit your home, watch how you interact with your child and interview people who actually know you as a parent. So if you've been misrepresented, this can be an opportunity for you to correct the record. So they'll see if you are doing things right, if you're creating the environment that is conducive and the best interest of your kiddos, that it's clean and safe, you have child appropriate routines and rules, you're involved in their school activities, healthcare, and you have a strong loving bond with your kiddos. So if you've been doing the work and you're doing all this, you're creating the environment then this is where it can be a positive and that will come across in either the report or the regular updates to the court.

Speaker 1:

The other one is credibility. I'm calling credibility in your corner, so the judges don't have time to get to know you and your lawyers only have so much time. Also, and it's the time that they're billing you frankly. But the guard and ad litem, they have the judge's ear and technically they're supposed to come with receipts. So if you are prioritizing your child's needs, communicating respectfully to your ex even if she's not, and keep your promises and show up consistently, the report hopefully and should and their updates to the court should reflect that. That can be powerful, that can be beneficial. It carries, like I said, a lot more weight than just the he said she said in court that often happens and a positive Gardner-Ed Lightham evaluation can help you with your joint custody, increasing your parenting time or a schedule that might work better or worse for the kiddos.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so those are the positives that I came up with. That is all in theory, gentlemen, and I'm sorry to say that because we're going to go through the negatives now and I've got to say that I have heard more negatives about guardian ad litems in court than I have heard positives and when I say that I don't mean by a small margin, I mean by a very large margin, like the data I was talking to yesterday and the unfair reports and updates to the court that he was receiving by the Guardian ad litem, who did not even talk with him over some of these topics and subjects and just decided to write a report. So the negatives, it's out of your hands. Mostly that's the first one. The kicker is you don't get to pick who's assigned to your case unless your attorneys are suggesting this and then you agree upon one. But be very careful if you do agree upon one.

Speaker 1:

Just like any one of these third parties that are involved in family law court, this is a cottage industry. They make their money off of being in family law court. They see each other all the time. You might get lucky and land a fair, professional guardian ad litem, or you might get one that brings their own biases or is not going to go out on a limb for you because they know that they're not going to piss off the judge or the magistrate, or they're not going to piss off the other attorney or anybody because they make their living by getting referred from the court or somebody else or one of the other attorneys, in order to continue to feed their family. So, in order to continue to feed their family. So some guardian ad litems lean maternally by default, even if unintentionally.

Speaker 1:

But we already know that that's just the way the family law court is structured. So know that that each one of these professionals that you're working with has got a bias and as much as they might be trying to work against it, got a bias and and as much as they might be trying to work against it, that it's not going to go so far in your, it's not likely to go so far in your favor, even if there is egregious stuff. Others. Others are just overworked and rushed through their investigations and then, the worst case, they spend more time talking to your ex than you and never fully understand your side, or never, or just don't even talk to you, like the guy I was talking to yesterday and comes up with some assessment based upon what his soon to be ex said and a brief conversation with the children. So if that happens, the report and the updates could skew against you.

Speaker 1:

And it's in writing. It's tough to undo, especially because it's one of the quote unquote experts that the judge is going to be leaning on to make their decision. You have to understand, gentlemen, the judges want cover. They want cover because they want to say, hey, this is what the feedback was that I got. These are the quote unquote professionals that gave their recommendations. I'm going with those that gives me cover, and and, and that's why I'm making my decision. So, so you've got to know, you've got to understand, you've got to keep that in mind when you're, when you're working in this, in this context and in in this environment.

Speaker 1:

So what is a tip for you to to be able to mitigate this? The fact that it's out of your hands Document, document, document, document, every single thing. One of the first things we do when I am doing individual coaching with dads is we set up a system for them to document everything that is going on throughout the entire process. And why is that important? It's important in this case because you can be proactive about suggesting people that they can talk to, or teachers, coaches, babysitters, anyone that can speak on your behalf as to what kind of parents you are. It'll also help you if the guardian ad litem, like in this gentleman's case that I was just speaking to, does not talk to you and does not come up with something that is positive, that if you have documentation around all this, you can be able to mitigate and argue against this quote, unquote expert in court if it is being used as evidence against you. So document everything and also understand, gentlemen, when you're documenting everything, your divorce case might end.

Speaker 1:

When you finish, well, hopefully, you come to agreement and then you, and then you get the divorce decree and then you have the parenting time agreement and all that, and you've done that in an amicable way way. But your communication, your co-parenting, the rest of this does not stop and I think oftentimes we think that we're getting to the finish line, that that's the end zone and you're done. This is just the beginning, then, of the process that's going forward in dealing with a myriad of other things, and if you listen to 260, some podcasts, or you've been on a group call, or if you talk to another divorced dad, some of this conflict does not stop, especially if you have somebody that is very, very challenging, has mental, emotional issues, personality disorders, whatever, that's not going to agree or collaborate or come to agreement on stuff. So documenting everything is exhausting. It feels like a full-time job, you feel like a secretary that you got to pay attention to. But again, get your documentation, get a system for it and you're going to be using it and use it for years to come.

Speaker 1:

Okay, the next negative for dads with guardian adult items is that they can be very expensive If you and you're probably already stretched. Paying child support, legal fees, possibly maintenance and the guardian ad litem bill can hit too, and, depending on your state, that may or may not, most likely not be split and you might be ordered to pay all of it. Or you might be ordered to pay all of it, or you might be ordered might be ordered to pay all of it and, subject to to review at final orders or at a trial, to to have it reallocated, which somehow typically always falls through the cracks and never gets done. Right, if especially if it's high conflict and there's 5 million other things that get talked about that reallocation never gets done, so you get stuck with it. So what are their hourly rates? Basically, they're the same as attorneys I'm a high-end attorney, so they're not inexpensive, and so if the case drags on and the investigation gets complex or there's multiple things that they need to continue to report to the court.

Speaker 1:

The guardian ad litem has to take multiple visits, appearances and whatever else, and the price keeps climbing. So if you're on a budget, ask early on, or if your attorneys are recommending this or suggesting this or kicking this around, how is the guardian ad litem going to be paid? Who is going to pay it? What is the estimated cost of that, and is there any room to request payment plans or fee caps? So it can be very expensive. I've seen it sometimes where it actually just becomes almost like as much as another attorney bill. So you're already paying your attorney. You're likely to be ordered to pay the guardian ad litem's attorney. If your act is high conflict and is always involving the guardian ad litem, then you're always talking to the guardian ad litem. The guardian ad litem is always doing an investigation and writing some sort of report to the court on what they feel should happen and the court's reviewing those and is always in communication with them. So it can get really really ridiculously expensive Another reason why it may, in probability, not be a good idea.

Speaker 1:

The last negative and there's more than these three, but I'm just highlighting the top ones. I think you're starting to get the feeling. These three, but I'm just highlighting the top ones. I think you're starting to get the feeling. The message of how I feel about this Is that a guardian ad litem is that you are under a microscope.

Speaker 1:

So, again, like I said, if you've got an ex that wants to complain or whine or have some issue with everything from drop-offs to what you're feeding the kids, to how you look at them or the emails that you're sending them, in the tone of the emails, then they're going to be involved potentially nonstop and they're going to be in your business nonstop. Did you text your ex in anger? Did you forget the school event? Did your child mention something innocent? Like dad, let me stay up late. That sounds like bad parenting. It can all be taught, be taken out of context, and this is what I was mentioning earlier they, they will start to ask questions. They will. And here's the other thing too is and this is just a function of how court is working family court is working in the attempt to move things in the direction of asking kids about what should happen and what they want, et cetera.

Speaker 1:

Asking 13-year-olds and 14-year-olds whether they want to spend time with dad or not. It's absolutely insanity. So they'll be talking to kids and kids. Look 13, 14, 15 years old. You have no clue what is good or bad for you. So making these decisions and talking about this stuff and and and. While it's good to be heard and allow your kids to be here, having them make decisions about stuff that is going to have a critical impact on them, like whether or not they should have a father in their lives, and the positive and the positives that their father brings to their lives, like authoritative parenting, which is discounted in family law court. They have no clue about. So this guardian ad litem is going to be in there talking about that stuff and making a decision on that. So just make sure that you write down what they see and hear, and if you're not careful, those details can create a distorted picture. So that's why documenting conversations, recording conversations all that is really important.

Speaker 1:

Also, here's something you can expect surprise visits. Now, this is on the extreme end, but a guardian ad litem might just show up at your house on a random Wednesday to see how you're parenting in real time. If you're unprepared, it may not reflect your usual standards, but just know. So you're under the microscope with this person all the time. What can you do? Just make sure that you're creating the environment, like we talked about earlier, with your kiddos. Make sure that your home is functioning well, that you're staying calm in all of your communication, even if your ex is being difficult. Don't involve the kids in the drama.

Speaker 1:

Supposedly, guardian med items are trained to spot emotional manipulation, but again, these are maybe attorneys that are doing this because they haven't been able to be family law attorneys and make a living doing that, or social workers because they haven't been able to get enough of a practice, or somebody else that just became a guardian ad litem. So make sure to have all of your ducks in a row and that you are appearing and acting like and hopefully that you are just being a ward cleaver, a really good dad in creating a positive environment and I know, if you are listening to this podcast, that that is you, because you care about figuring out how to get through this process in a positive light. So final thoughts are really this the guardian ad litem is not your friend, but they're not your enemy also. So let's just put it in those terms the guardian ad litem is not your friend. Just don't be clueless about that. But don't treat them as an enemy.

Speaker 1:

If you get one appointed to you, their job is not to advocate for you, to advocate for the child, but, as we know, that gets distorted and screwed up in family law court, especially if you have an ex. That's that is. That is non-cooperative and high conflict. It can't work in your favor. I will say oftentimes it does not. The majority and I say majority like 80, 90% of the time that I've talked to dads that have dealt with this it does not work out well.

Speaker 1:

So best thing you can do is, if you are in the situation where you have one, be consistent, be respectful and keep your kids at the center of every choice that you make and point out how and why you are doing that, how you're doing that, why you're doing that and the documentation of that as well. And that's why you keep that documentation and keep track of all that well, and that's why you keep that documentation and keep track of all that, because if it does get used against you, if it does get misconstrued or weaponized against you, then you have the conversations, you have the decisions, you have what you said to them, you know everything so that you can provide to your attorney and you can mitigate any of those circumstances that come up. Look, you can't be perfect. We're not going to be perfect, especially going through this difficult and challenging time. But be present, be reliable, be child focused that's what they are looking for and if you can keep it that way and just like you're doing it through your entire process, then you can hope for the best and hopefully things are gonna turn out really great for you. So that is my take on the Guardian ad litem. If you found some value in this, I appreciate if you would share this far and wide the comments.

Speaker 1:

We've been getting some more comments on the podcast platforms. Guys, I can't tell you enough how much that helps, especially if other dads are looking for some resources. There are not a ton of resources like this podcast. On that note, share it far and wide Every week. If you're not on the email list, get on the email list at the website. Share this with other dads. Get on the email list at the website. Share this with other dads.

Speaker 1:

If you're in dad's groups or if you know other dads are going through it, get them involved and listen to the at least be able to listen to the podcast. Even more. So get onto the website with the blog posts We've got. We've got an app. We've got so many resources there, depending on where you're at in the divorce before, during or after. Where you're at in resources before, during or after. Where you're at in resources. I know resources are a big thing. That's why we started the Foundation for Fathers to offset some of this. It's also why we have the trusted allies that are coming in and supporting us in different ways financial as well as other needs for divorce debts. Just share this as much as possible. Leave a comment, give us a star rating, everything we can possibly do. If you found some value in this, pay it forward to somebody else. And again, I always appreciate you listening every week. It's a blessing for me to be here in front of you this week and pray that you have a terrific week, god bless.

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Jude Sandvall: The Divorced Dadvocate

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